DEBT DEBRIS, CREDIT DEBACLES, and FINANCIAL MALFEASANCE -- evolution or creation? conspiracy or tragedy? truth or lies?
The current slate of economic woes has me wondering if the middle class will survive the impact from the
ongoing implosion of the credit and housing markets. When the smoke clears will there be any survivors
shouting for rescue or merely an enormous crater separating the wealthy and well connected from the poor, disenfranchised, and struggling debtors? With rescue operations already underway, and the evil twin sisters - shock and panic - gathering their forces, one begins to wonder – were these implosions accidental or part of some sinister plan. I’m referring to the financial implosion of our economy, of course.
But the question remains, are housing crisis truth seekers (hct’s) welcome at Break the Matrix (BTM)?
Has the major shift in the American economy from a production based model to a service based model (over the past several decades) been a natural progression or something that was planned and implemented with cruel intentions? Is Globalization a natural occurrence or a contrived paradigm forced upon the planet’s inhabitants by nefarious trade deals, incentivized outsourcing, and international networks of central bankers?
…
If you parachuted into our economy some years back and were hell bent on destroying it, you’d likely target the auto makers. Their factories were major centers of production and employment in our old economy. But you wouldn’t stop there, you’d continue to export as many production centers as you could in every accessible industry including textiles, farming, information technology, telecommunications, finance and administration…..
You’d be left with a country that produced very little, exported very little, and imported very much. You’d be left with a citizenry scrambling to find meaningful employment while undergoing a decline in standards of living.
It makes sense that the housing market was booming here. It is one of the few industries that you can’t totally export. You can import some of the labor (se habla espanol), but the physical element of real estate is difficult to overcome (virtual housing anyone?). You need materials and equipment in close proximity to the landscape. This was our major viable industry and we milked it, extorted it, analyzed it, and abused and squandered its wealth from every possible angle with the help and encouragement of the D.C. gangsters and the Wall St. enablers that comprise the New York branch of gov't. Now the housing market is like a rotting carcass, picked dry by vultures and ravished by scavengers, that has been sitting too long in the sun. Long ago it started to stink, and soon it may crumble into dust.
Was this all some random accident? Is the current state of the economy a result of the natural evolution of well intentioned yet misguided federal policies or is it the achieved goal of an intentional situation created by malicious economic agents?
The American middle class has been playing a drunken game of musical chairs to a tune they barely recognize. The catch is that all of the chairs were confiscated during the sing along section and now that the music has stopped there is no where left to fall…. ,er sit.
What are the growth industries of the immediate future? I hope they are not solely limited to debt collection, prison maintenance and construction, and hocking scrap metals. (the online porn sector can only handle so many bored and unemployed housewives).
With inflation on the rise, utility companies on the rampage, and banks out for revenge, the best may be yet to come. The artist formerly known as the American middle class may be leaving the building.
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you wouldn’t stop there, you’d continue to export as many production centers as you could in every accessible industry porno including textiles, farming, information technology, telecommunications, finance and administration…..
You’d be left with a country that produced very little, exported very little, and imported very much. You’d be left with a erotik hikayeler citizenry scrambling to find meaningful employment while undergoing a decline in standards of living.
I was really thinking about how to put this. I believe that it has been the dominance of bad ideas that have lead to most of our problems. Socialism swept the world 100 years ago, and every country in the world jumped on board to an extent. The U.S. did least of all, although we had some major proponents in Wilson, FDR and LBJ. As I wrote in one of my articles, even a mixed economy doesn't work. Little by little, socialism has eroded our economy until today it is as unsustainable as Russia's was. As Claire pointed out, each intervention into the market necessitates the next intervention, and you are in a downward spiral.
This is not to say that there is no corruption or downright evil in government. There is. As I've said before, a certain former male cheerleader comes to mind first (but he's not alone). However, rather than a grand conspiracy, I believe these crimes are more opportunistic and reactive, rather than planned decades in advance. Our culture of legal plunder merely attracts people that wish to participate to government, and when an opportunity presents itself, they seize it. Moreover, our general belief that government should solve all problems results in a gradual increase in government into our lives. These trends are predictable, and in fact were predicted accurately by Hayek over 60 years ago. He warned that an administration like Hitler's was the inevitable result of decades of socialism, and I believe that the Bush administration bears this out. Our only saving grace has been that about half the country is opposed to the "neo cons." If the Dem's screw up too badly, I am seriously worried about the neo cons coming back in 4 years with MOST people behind them. That could lead to a scary America (not that this one isn't scary already).
Back to my point, my experience working in government (local - but the mindset is the same throughout), and dealing with state and federal government in business is that they are reactive. They don't see anything coming. They cause problems without realizing it and then run around saying "what are we going to do about this." THen, they make the biggest mistake - they try to solve the problems they created. Then, it gets worse. There is an overarching attitude of CYA in government - no one wants a catastrophe on their watch, and there is an attitude in all government that leaving people to do what they want will result in some type of catastrophe. This is why our founders wanted to place such limits on government.
I could be all wrong, but all of my experience tells me this is what really goes on. It is up to the people to solve this. They simply have to "say no" to government - both as a benefactor and a repressor. "No army in the world can stop an idea whose time has come."
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
all that's interesting
but what I'm wondering is if you have a personal opinion as to whether or not the current state of economic affairs was arrived at intentionally or accidentally.....
(There's nothing wrong with quoting other people, but of course you're preaching to the choir when pointing out the fallacies of any of Naomi Klein's positions -- I agree with you..........
You've involved Naomi Klein in this discussion -- you're welcome to, but neither of us share her views, it's like setting up a house to knock it down.... I know she seeks to discredit Friedman, but I'm not referring to either of them when wondering about our current state of affairs and I don't think either of them are directly involved.... anyhow, really curious to know -- taking a survey in a way
current economic situation -- accidental or fixed????????????/
>>"current economic situation -- accidental or fixed?"
Bottom line, I would say accidental. Good intentions, for the most part (FDR's New Deal), but bad ideas (socialism and market regulation). As things got worse, successive administrations put off the inevitable hour of reckoning in order to get re-elected. Bureaucrats hired more bureaucrats and each one was looking out for his own best interest-- no crime in itself, it's just how the rotten system was set up. Lobbyists took advantage as well, feeding the beast... all with the best intentions.
Bad ideas lead otherwise good people to do bad things. I'm a big believer in the power of ideas. That's why I am here.
whether or not our economic collapse was planned or accidental?
seriously. I don't want to type before I know what I want to say. But I'm thinking. No one light a match. :)
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
I don't want to add fuel to the fire, but here's a wacky conspiracy theory for you: you know that Alan Greenspan was a big fan of Ayn Rand (some say "disciple"). What if he fancies himself a John Galt, and has set out to destroy the U.S. economy on purpose, so that we have to start again from scratch?
Just want to make it clear that I don't think that is what happened. Naomi Klein (coming from a leftist, critical angle) goes on and on about Milton Friedman and his evil plan to destroy us all in order to make way for capitalism, because Friedman once said that it usually takes some big disaster to get people to agree to capitalist reforms. She thinks the Bush administration used the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to sweep away social programs and try to privatize services in New Orleans. She also sees the war in Iraq as an attempt to force a free market economy on that country, and to reap the profit from it.
There are a host of conspiracy theories like this, that I think are designed to discredit people like Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman, and the idea of free market capitalism-- but hey, that's just my own little conspiracy theory.
have anything to do with the situation we are currently facing in the US?
The fed is socializing our entire banking system.
If Naomi Klein thinks that Katrina paved the way for free market capitalism I think she's not really paying attention
But here you are again, presenting other's opinions. A pet peeve of mine is that I like to hear what people think themselves and let everyone speak for themselves only.
So how would the idea that this bubble and the collapse of the bubble was planned --- serve to discredit Ayn Rand? Ayn Rand is a writer of fiction from many decades past who is not involved in contemporary economic policy. Milton Friedman is an economic theorist but is not in a practical position of power such as running a gov't agency or a Wall St. Bank. Certainly his ideas may influence those in power.
Anyhow, I don't think your attempt to pre-emptively discredit the idea of this not happening by accident is valid. I wouldn't presuppose that someone who sees these events as planned is acting on the motive of wanting to discredit Milton Friedman.
So what about you? Do you think this was planned or accidental?
Also, do you really think that we are moving closer towards free market capitalism?
I don't think we are moving closer toward free market capitalism, and that is partly because proponents of capitalism are at the very least misunderstood, and at the worst vilified by the mainstream media. There are notable exceptions, though, like John Stossel.
By the way, why is it wrong to refer to present other people's opinions? If you never pay attention to what others are saying you are drastically limiting yourself, don't you think? Stossel is a great commentator, and I have gotten a lot out of listening to him. I don't see how reading, listening to and quoting other people's ideas entails that I don't think and speak for myself. I am in fact speaking for myself when I say "This person he has said x, y, z, and I agree with him", or "that person has said a, b, c, and we need to pay attention because he she is attempting to manipulate people". Moreover, it is far more honest to give credit where it is due that to try and take credit yourself for other people's ideas.
Naomi Klein is out to lunch, but she is somewhat of a media darling, so I think we have to pay some attention to what she is saying, if only to better understand what we are up against. I read her book "The Shock Doctrine" and in it she does indeed claim that Katrina was used as a pretext to force free market capitalism on the residents of New Orleans. Mind you, free market capitalism isn't even what the Bush administration is promoting there, but that is beside the point. Klein is working hard to smear capitalism and promote socialism. And people are listening to her. I think it is important to know your enemy, don't you?
>>"Anyhow, I don't think your attempt to pre-emptively discredit the idea of this not happening by accident is valid."
I am not attempting to preemptively discredit anything. I am defending free market capitalism from those who are trying to discredit it.
>>"I wouldn't presuppose that someone who sees these events as planned is acting on the motive of wanting to discredit Milton Friedman."
I am not presupposing it. I have read "The Shock Doctrine" and I have seen it for myself. Klein is clearly seeking to discredit Friedman. She also blames him for the crimes of Pinochet. It's there in black and white.
Milton Friedman is dead, but his ideas still do influence some people. I wish more people would pay attention to those ideas; we would all be so much better off if they did.
>>"If you parachuted into our economy some years back and were hell bent on destroying it, you’d likely target the auto makers. Their factories were major centers of production and employment in our old economy. But you wouldn’t stop there, you’d continue to export as many production centers as you could in every accessible industry including textiles, farming, information technology, telecommunications, finance and administration…..
You’d be left with a country that produced very little, exported very little, and imported very much. You’d be left with a citizenry scrambling to find meaningful employment while undergoing a decline in standards of living."
It's a tough spot we are in. Do you think government intervention has created the problem and that the solution is to free the market completely, or do you think the opposite is true and that the government should have been more diligent about protecting us from competition by limiting trade and imposing regulation that would have kept the jobs in America?
If we were able to keep more of our income then we wouldn't be so dependent on large gov't sponsored corporations to create opportunities for us
They have the tax breaks, the lawyers and the know how to navigate through the bureacracy ... there are just as many individuals with great ideas and the motivation and drive to accomplish their goals but it's tough to compete against gov't favored entities -- if you freed up the market and increased the share of their income that people are allowed to keep (what a strange idea --- allowed to keep one's income....)then you'd unleash a great deal of ingenuity and opportunity here
It seems like the global powers have adandoned our economy in favor of emerging markets in China and elsewhere. How many appliances can you sell in our country when everyone has already has a computer, radio, tv, microwave, etc.. In that sense we are a saturated market in decline
I think government interference in the market has caused our economic decline, and that we are more than capable of being great and prosperous again, if we can only get them out of our way.
I think the problem isn't that we are not big enough consumers, though, but that we are consuming more than we produce. On an individual level, this manifests itself as people spending more than they can afford, mortgaging their inflated-valued homes to do so, and getting themselves into massive debt. The Chinese are doing the opposite, working their buns off and saving their money. China exports way more than it imports, which is why it is getting richer.
We can continue to consume here and still be successful, but only if we start producing a whole lot more goods and services to sell both here and abroad. If we free our economy from government control people will have both the means and the incentives to be much more productive. This will involve not only taking government favors away from big corporations, but also getting Americans to give up their cushy entitlement programs and government backed security (no more mortgage bailouts, no more guaranteed bank deposits-- buyer beware!)). We just have to be willing to do it.
pretty extreme position Claire! Though now that you mention it, I agree with you --- I'll bet interest rates on savings accounts would shoot up
Maybe Americans are consuming too much --- but what I often see is companies desperate to sell more and more products to people who already have so many products
If you take a Chinese peasant and give him a disposable income -- then he's liable to splurge on toasters, blenders, microwaves, stereos, basic household products that most Americans already have
even the poorest umemployed Americans have TV's --- if GE wants to sell TVs in America they have to make them better than last years model and more affordable, but in China all they have to do is make one available since not that many people have this stuff -- same for electronics, household stuff, etc.
If this was planned it may have been to force Americans to liquidate all of their disposable income by making necessities expensive...........
Theft of manhole covers is up something like 1,000 per cent in our fair city, so watch out when you're driving around
I suspect that this will take care of those ne'er-do-well environmentalists who ride their bikes or only drive tiny, fuel-efficient cars and mopeds. And those of us with hummers and/or armored tanks, cruising at 2-4 mpg on the highway, will finally prevail - proving once again that MIGHT MAKES RIGHT!
-dommy
http://dinodinodino.wordpress.com