"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Last time I checked the 1776 Revolution wasn't legal either and those who engaged in war with the most powerful country on the face of the earth at that time faced death as well.

>>>>Organizational infiltration has long been a tactic used to disrupt leadership and alter the popular perception of their causes. The easiest means of fulfilling these goals is by sowing fear and paranoia within the group, then encouraging a violent response. As a result, the infiltrators can eliminate the threat and facilitate far-reaching regulation and control.

We must vigorously guard against this and ferret out the agents provocateur from the true membership. We must continually be open to question; we must always validate our own credentials, and we must constantly question and validate all those with whom we are allied.

There should be no offense taken in this process. It is a critically necessary aspect of maintaining the validity and reliability of those with whom we have cast our lot. By the same token, we must be cautious of those who resist or object to this validation process and view them with heightened senses as we may discover them as being “false flagged.”<<<<

This is true, but the inherent danger is that the organization itself is vulnerable simply BECAUSE it is a collective. Collectives are necessary to manipulate people. Individuals are hard to manipulate. People are vulnerable to group dynamics and pressures when in a group. Folks placed in a group will go along with a lot of things they normally would not.

>>>>Creating a trustworthy membership is only one of the challenges facing us. We must also strive for a consensus as to the primary objective(s) of this movement. What do we wish to achieve? How do we plan to achieve it? It isn't enough to merely inform...what end do we wish to create?<<<<

And here you sound like an infiltrator seeking "consensus". The idea is liberty. NO consensus but the freedom to live without being aggressed upon or aggressing against others. Period. Unless you're talking about forming a specific group that allows for SOME aggression in CERTAIN circumstances, in which case I'd say you're being relativistic and incrementalist.

Non compliance is great. We can assume all you 'non-compliance' types have:

stopped filing with the IRS.

stopped paying your property taxes.

taken the license plates off your cars and burned your driver's licenses on the courthouse steps.

stopped applying for a 'license' or paying govt. fees of any kind.

are making and selling machine guns, drugs, and other contraband items out of your basements.

stopped stopping at stop lights and obeying speed laws and you've started driving drunk on a nightly basis.

consistently refused to show any form of I.D. or 'comply' in any way at roadblocks.

Need I go on?

It's great when some people are willing to sit in jail, sometimes for years and decades for what they believe. Many of us are not or cannot and will not. It's great when some have the money and patience to fight these legal battles, see last sentence.

As for me I was told at some point as a child that I lived in a 'free country' and I was and still am stupid enough to believe it. We already tolerate too much. We must dig a line in stone at some point that's deep enough to carry the blood away or we will learn as the British are learning that there is no limit to their insanity/evil:

http://willowtown.com/reality/britsinsane.htm

Non-compliance is great as long as you're functioning under a regime that tolerates it. When the regime starts shooting the 'non-compliers' and those who question authority they need to have another plan. In other words what do you do when authority refuses to be questioned?

I suggest renting and watching the movie Michael Collins for a hint of what our future probably holds in store for us: http://michaelcollins.warnerbros.com/

I wasn't thinking about Ghandi and MLK when I typed that. I'm not a pacifist, I just think violence is fruitless from a strategic point of view at this point in this movement. Logistically, examine your resources and then examine the resources of your supposed enemy, do you really think you can achieve anything but suicide by engaging The Government, Federal, State, County, Municipal, in armed conflict??

Like Rahn said in another thread on this subject, who are you gonna rise up against? Your kin? My kin? His kin?

Besides, police are a resource, that is used, abused, and discarded when their usefulness expires. they don't realize it, but that doesn't make it any less true. They are victims of the same system, caught between doing whats right and doing what they are told they must do. Its the legislators, the executives, the useless empty suits, the Bureaucrats, that we need to defeat in order to liberate America, and those bureaucrats, and corrupt law makers do not require physical violence to over throw. We give them our power via our willingness to comply with their mandates. Refuse to comply and they are powerless.

Its almost that simple. The rest of its just a waiting game.

Check out The GDLS @ http://www.greendragonls.proboards.com
We're on Myspace too
http://www.myspace.com/greendragonls

let me tell MY STORY and what i learned. i guilty of nothing" who did nothing" but nothing wrong except ask for justice! this not only was denied" but i was taken from my home for no reason and put in jail! grab off strreet surrounded by police and thrown into pyschiatric hospital! for over six years torment and confusion and more of the same on and on over again. ask for personal protection order house shot at with aunt sitting on the porch! turn to police? FBI DNR i did? adult protection i did? social security i did? human resourses i did? michigan civil rights i did! law firms over 40? two took close to 10 thousand dollars from us and one kept all our mortgage papers? con lied denied even personal protection order by judge against the two borthers who shot at our home! older brother 7 felony conviction on his record one he assault with intent to main ? fight back baby only if i did well would not of been able to tell this story now would i? but" put it all togeather and boom" what i put togeather! 235 judicial judges connected to holocaust museum and judicial tender? appointee HOLOCAUST musuem william j danof and tender? by president bush as president of holocaust museum" but wait also belongs to the largest attorney firm in the state! hold the phone this attorney firm of MILLER, CANFIELD, PADDOCK AND STONE has ON THE FIRM JUSTICE SUSAN RECK BORTHER IN THE FIRM. the judge who denied my personal protection order! won judgement against one of the lawyers ANDREW WILKINS sept. 05 ! 3000$ that i still waiting for from 53 district court run by THERESA M. BRENNAN bar no. P.34510? THIS PERSON WAS APPOINTED TO THE BENCH BY GOVERNOR GRANDHOLM OF MICHIGAN? ask democrat chairman mark brewer for help? nothing? THIS JUDGE GO'S ON TO BE ELECTED TO THE BENCH???? after i gave MARK BREWER THE EVIDENCE on her wrong doing and part in it? now throw in ACORN democrat party of michigan and republicans too??? REP. R.JOE HUME MI ALSO TOLD MY STORY TO HIM FIRST THATS WHY I WENT TO THE DEMOCRAT PARTY???? ALSO THIS I FOUND OUT ABOUT SURVEY ENGINEERS ALL WILL DO NOTHING TO TO PROVE MONUMENT STAKE NOT ONLY TAKEN OUT AND REMOVED BUT SURVEYED SOME HUNDRED OR MORE FEET OFF IT'S CORRECT POINT? my pole barn 60ft. by 40fts legally on my neighbors property? i have no records of cost or who built it? went to city records it was voided in 03? bought property 01. monument surveyby state 02 on record in deeds and records as oright? 3700 people property are wrong if that boundrey is wrong the only one in cohoctah township? figured out gas line from ohio through michigan to canada was route for north american high way? THIS route was changed and now runs up minnesota to canada???? gas line are public officials bought property along this gas line? senator carl levin owns one hundred acers in livingston county michigan. way back when governor ran for governor she said we will have a construction boom that will blow you away!!!! i got in the way???? me i put the breaks on corporate liberal agenda construction boom for public profit??? results foreclosers and now bail out to the same bastereds that real estate frauded millions of americans. criminals in goverment and trying to control us all? everything i said i also have the proof??? if anything this letter is like a record if anything happens to me! michigan the jewish judicial and democrat state of corruption. i would guess their is not one boundrey monument in america thats correct. bail out to federal reserve ben bernanke? henrey paulson? president bush? ready to blow the lid off this goverment? been waiting since 06 ? INDEPENDENT michigan little big horn AMEN.

I swear, you had better be right, because if one part of your excuse for cowardice comes true what do you think they're gonna do with your kind?:

"An illegitimate regime might struggle on for awhile through police state tactics, martial law and the like, but such things do not last for long."

The Soviet Union 'struggled on' for, let me think, 70 years or so, killed tens of millions at home, and fed wars abroad killing hundreds of millions more. That's not too illegitimate I suppose.

Well gee, what are we supposed to do while all that's happening? Are we supposed to go willingly to the camps, dig the ditch they tell us to dig and piss our pants when the machine gun bolts slam home?

Those with some guts left need to start here:

http://willowtown.com/promo/quotes.htm

And don’t miss what Gandhi had to say about violence.

Then go to my columns page:

http://www.willowtown.com/reality/columns.htm

This 'movement,' the paul bot movement to be exact, has obviously been infiltrated from the start. As someone noted above that's what our enemies do. Yes they'll try to get you to do stupid things, but they'll also inject the sweet smelling "We'll never have to resort to violence," types.

And for giggles don't miss my "10 rules for the voting booth":

http://www.willowtown.com/reality/rules.htm

We need to stop wasting time arguing over whether it should be done and concentrate on recognizing when we no longer have a choice. History shows that to many it won't be clear until they're bleeding to death in a ditch they were told to dig 'for the garbage.'

Would it be possible to write legislation, then encourage a representative to introduce it, or face being thrown out of office? Kind of like a "digg" site for legislation? If as many people were to use it as they do digg, then it could be possible to start holding politicians feet to the fire in regards to serving the
interests of the people, we need to start applying pressure.

This would also bring the notion of states rights back into the spotlight, as well as jury nullification possibly.

Just an idea.

They have no fear of sheeple.

They have no fear because they know we will not vote them out of office. The two party system has a lock on the political system. They have made the rules to keep out all the rest of us who don't agree with them. Alas, the Federal Election Commission, FEC.

They have no fear because they have made it difficult by their legal manuevering to bring them to justice and put them in prison because of violations of the Constitution. When We The People want redress of government, they simply ignor our pleas. They are protected by their own rules, contrary to what the Constitution states.

They have no fear of being dragged out of their offices by their hair and flogged in the public square because they have the force of government at the point of a gun to protect them.

They have no fear.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

... it's time for "a Boston Tea Party" 21st-century style. Violence is never the answer.

But...instead of talk, here's what we can do to show our complete disregard for the criminals who are bringing down the US: withdraw ALL of your money from any financial source linked to the US.

Finally, why not start a shadow government?

Why not actually begin an online trial of the Bush/Cheney/Republican regime in absentia? This is a major class action suit by the American public indicting these criminals for MAJOR crimes against the Constitution that are worthy not merely of impeachment, but of imprisonment. Anything short of that is moot. Too many of us have been talking about doing just this for way, way too long. It's now time to act like conscientious citizens and to stop the criminality.

This is truly a "genocide" of the worst kind: the death of a nation, a constitution, a people.

http://inyourworld.blogstream.com (visit my blog archived as "The Bush/Cheney Genocide")
http://opednews.com (search my article "The Bush/Cheney Genocide")
http://youtube.com/theyareguilty (watch any and ALL of my films, that is, those made by theyareguilty)

As Gandhi said, "The way of truth and love always wins...think of it...always!"

Professor Fandel

...the rule of law is.
I believe, as our community grows, we will become strong enough to overcome the present government that controls us. We DO have the right to address Congress with a list of grievances.
Having said that, if enough people come together, the best solution, in my mind, is to replace them one by one with true Public Servants. The only alternative is to bring a lawsuit against them. Such is the approach of Vincent Bugliosi, who is even now attempting to file charges against Bush for war crimes, just as soon as he leaves office.
Anarchy has always been the tactic of an Oligarchy. First, they incite discontent, then outright violence. Once the current regime is ousted, a vacuum is created, into which the instigators, the new Oligarchy, step in and gain control. I for one am for the slow, methodical awakening of our people, electing new leadership across the board, and perhaps bringing these current perpetrators to justice.

History demonstrates that perpetual conflict has always been the overriding operational tactic of those who promote and benefit from the New World Order (NWO). Those conspirators possess both the power and influence to provoke the most base and predictably violent human responses. They are EMPOWERED by those responses! They PROFIT from those responses! And, they are fully PREPARED to internally deal with those responses! It is precisely these sorts of reactions that we must resist if we are to conduct a successful campaign against the NWO.

Having served with the Russians during the fateful campaign of 1812, Prussian General and military strategist Karl von Clausewitz suffered terrible defeat during the struggle against Napoleon. That campaign showed von Clausewitz the importance of a Fabian strategy (denying battle, allowing an enemy to exhaust himself through exertion). He wrote, "One may admit that even where the decision has been bloodless, it was determined in the last analysis by engagements that did not take place, but had merely been offered."

Three men - Mahatma Gandhi, John F. Kennedy, and Martin Luther King - implemented this Fabian strategy. It was such a fearsome threat that the NWO conspirators finally used the option of last resort against them. What was this fearsome threat? They shared the conviction that resisting violence is the greatest means of political expression and social change. This common belief by these three men galvanized the masses and consequently most challenged and frightened those pursuing the goal of enrichment by world domination since it presented the potential of diluting the NWO stratagem.

Simply put Gandhi, Kennedy, and King philosophically operated "outside the box" of the usual human response to tyranny and abuse. They campaigned against this natural human response of violence, creating a situation wherein the “enemy” was in danger of exhausting himself through exertion and putting himself on public display, revealing the monster that he is.

Unable to lure or provoke Gandhi, Kennedy, and King into open “combat,” and with no other available remedies to their non-violent strategy, the darkest forces finally eliminated them. One must realize the gravity and significance of this decision. It’s always the last option and, due to the risks involved, only implemented under the gravest circumstances. Obviously these three leaders presented a significant threat, so their example demonstrates and validates our most powerful tool in the struggle we now face.

But their example also shows the grave dangers presented by these dark forces. There can be no doubt that the “enemy” is “playing for keeps” and will stop at nothing to accomplish his ends.

This means we must exercise great vigilance to guard against the influence of NWO agents who will infiltrate our activities. We must be aware that they have the ability to know virtually every action that we take and every thought we share. We must be united and we must be strong.

Some members and perceived leaders of the alternative media/anti-NWO movement do us injustice through their sanitized and limited content and by sheer fear mongering.

General von Clausewitz observed, "The majority of people are timid by nature, and that is why they constantly exaggerate danger. All influences on the military leader, therefore, combine to give him a false impression of his opponent's strength, and from this arises a new source of indecision."

It doesn't take a great deal of analysis to recognize that General von Clausewitz’s statement directly applies to nearly every case of organizational/group infiltration where the mission and message is intentionally distorted by agents provocateur.

Organizational infiltration has long been a tactic used to disrupt leadership and alter the popular perception of their causes. The easiest means of fulfilling these goals is by sowing fear and paranoia within the group, then encouraging a violent response. As a result, the infiltrators can eliminate the threat and facilitate far-reaching regulation and control.

We must vigorously guard against this and ferret out the agents provocateur from the true membership. We must continually be open to question; we must always validate our own credentials, and we must constantly question and validate all those with whom we are allied.

There should be no offense taken in this process. It is a critically necessary aspect of maintaining the validity and reliability of those with whom we have cast our lot. By the same token, we must be cautious of those who resist or object to this validation process and view them with heightened senses as we may discover them as being “false flagged.”

Creating a trustworthy membership is only one of the challenges facing us. We must also strive for a consensus as to the primary objective(s) of this movement. What do we wish to achieve? How do we plan to achieve it? It isn't enough to merely inform...what end do we wish to create?

The Founding Fathers knew that they had to be unified in their overall vision. The Preamble to the Constitution displays the Founding Fathers' clear strategy including their mission statement and objective:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Our struggle against the NWO is in its infancy - a grassroots struggle similar to that faced by patriots in the years preceding the American Revolution. How did they gain influence? How do we? We can look to business history for an example of grass-roots networking.

The A.L. Williams/Milico Company dismantled the Life and Health Insurance Industry monopoly of “Whole Life” insurance. (Insurance overall is a six trillion dollar industry - not a small adversary)

This company began as the idea of only a few people who adopted a "network marketing" approach that rapidly grew across the country. Over time, it resulted in a significant erosion of power within the previously untouchable realm of the few, large insurers. A. L. Williams' success was the direct result of the simple word-of-mouth sharing of basic truths AND a viable alternative.

The A.L. Williams/Milico strategy was implemented by a three step process:

1) Inform,
2) Disturb, and
3) Solve

Those of you with a business background will immediately recognize this strategy as one often used in marketing programs. Firstly, we Inform as many people as we can as to the realities; secondly, we Disturb them with the profound implications of the “enemy’s” agenda; then, thirdly, we offer a concrete and viable Solution to the problem.

In order to create a sound strategy we must first create a pure, unified front; we must form true alliances and encourage a meeting-of-the-mind on element three, Solve. Much excellent work has been done thus far to Inform and Disturb, and there is more work to be done in order to Solve. We can identify our goals once we’ve agreed on a solution.

As one studies the Jefferson Letters and the various writings, communications, and meetings prior to the American Revolution we see that the Founding Fathers were faced with many of the same problems that we are now experiencing in our attempt to establish a unified front. Their considered approach to this dilemma and their ultimate success is and should be very instructive to us.

They were guided by absolute morals, handed down to them through the tenets of English Common Law. The original Constitution and Bill of Rights reflect this underpinning. Only later would the concept of “moral relativism” come into play in our society, and that itself is a direct product of the NWO. This moral relativism combined with greed, ego, and subterfuge presents the challenges facing us in building a unified front.

As a result of much hard work and considerable sacrifice the Founding Fathers established clear and attainable goals. It was the through the creation of these goals and their dedicated mindset that they were able to succeed. We must do no less.

Václav Havel wrote in 1999, “It has been our absolutely basic historical experience that, in the long run, the only thing that can be truly successful and meaningful politically must first and foremost – that is, before it has taken any political form at all – be a proper and adequate response to the fundamental moral dilemmas of the time, or an expression of respect for the imperatives of the moral order bequeathed to us by our culture. It is a very clear understanding that the only kind of politics that truly makes sense is one that is guided by conscience.”

Our final victory will come not only through key alliances of like-minded people, but will also require a sound strategy, plan, and execution. As a significant part of this, and in order to halt and reverse the process of the NWO, we cannot and must not "attack" them where they are strong; we must deny battle on their prepared fields and compel them to exhaust themselves through exertion upon ours.

It takes more courage to stand up to a gun than it ever has or will take to point one.

First they ignore you [when you say NO], then they ridicule you [when you say NO], then they fight you [when you say NO], then you win [when they learn]. - Mahatma Gandhi.

I would like to let you know that the freedom movement is stronger than many think it is. We are all spread out in our little groups across the country (and indeed, the world). Many of us cross over and are involved in different groups, but most of us stick with the one or two that we resonate best with. I would love to see a central point for all freedom lovers to join together and organize, but that idea hasn't gone over well for the most part. However, the best organizational community I have seen is fightwithtools.org, which is mostly very young people - a lot of them not even old enough to vote. But, They organize meetings all over the country and go out and inform people. Maybe it is in our best interest to have our groups spread out and working independently, as they already are. It's no secret that if you wanna be heard on the net, you gotta have lots of websites. We certainly have every corner of the internet being put to good use, and it grows every day with more new websites, YouTube channels, MySpace pages, various independent social networks, radio shows, blogs... The list goes on and on. The messages reach more people every single day.
I see videos often of average Americans putting up flyers in their towns, offering lists of Congress' phone numbers to their friends and urging them to call and write, people organizing to go out on the streets and hand out information... Again, the list goes on and on.
I don't think we can possibly all work together. As individuals, we gravitate towards those who are most like-minded. Smaller groups working on whatever drives them most is what's happening now, and it's working. There are definitely groups out there who are prepared to fight with violence. Hard to say if they will make the first move - I doubt it, but, you never know. People are unpredictable.

All that being said, I am curious why you would say "These people are anarchists and criminals". I am aware that the media always presents anarchists as riot starting instigators - in no small part due to the infamous Sex Pistols song "Anarchy In The UK". But the reality is that anarchists are some of the most prolific freedom fighters in this country, and hearing the DC boys and banksters called anarchists doesn't seem right to me. Maybe they live by a set of rules that seem anarchistic, but there's a lot more to it with those guys, and what they practice is not anarchy at all. Anarchists reject Government, they don't usually get involved in it - though I have heard of anarchists who also consider themselves Libertarian who get involved on the local levels.
At any rate, the article on Wikipedia can explain it better than I can:

Anarchism is a political philosophy encompassing theories and attitudes which support the elimination of all compulsory government, i.e. the state. The term anarchism derives from the Greek αναρχω, anarcho, meaning "without archons" or "without rulers", from ἀν (an, "without") + ἄρχή (arche, "to rule") + ισμός (from stem -ιζειν). It is defined by The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics as "the view that society can and should be organized without a coercive state." Specific anarchists may have additional criteria for what constitutes anarchism, and they often disagree with each other on what these criteria are. According to The Oxford Companion to Philosophy, "there is no single defining position that all anarchists hold, beyond their rejection of compulsory government, and those considered anarchists at best share a certain family resemblance".

There are many types and traditions of anarchism, not all of which are mutually exclusive. Anarchism is usually considered to be a radical left-wing ideology, and as such much of anarchist economics and legal philosophy reflect anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism or participatory economics; however, anarchism has always included an individualist strain, including those who support capitalism (e.g. market anarchists: anarcho-capitalism, agorism, etc.) and other market-orientated economic structures (e.g. mutualists). As described by the 21st century anarchist Cindy Milstein, anarchism is a "political tradition that has consistently grappled with the tension between the individual and society." Others, such as panarchists and anarchists without adjectives neither advocate nor object to any particular form of organization. Anarchist schools of thought differ fundamentally, supporting anything from extreme individualism to complete collectivism. Some anarchists fundamentally oppose all types of coercion, while others have supported the use of some coercive measures, including violent revolution, on the path to anarchy.

A lot of anarchists that I know, despite their belief that all Government should be eliminated, are supporters of Ron Paul. They absolutely do not support what is happening in our government right now, and I think most of them would take offense to being compared to those guys.

*******************************
in our hand an old old old thread
trail of blood and amens
greed is the gift for the sons of the sons
hear this prayer of the wampum
this is the tie that will bind us

http://pyrabang.com/go/mamachelle