Public Opinion Poll - Accident or Planned? Truth or Lies
The question I'm asking you to consider is this:
Is the faltering economy the result of misguided, yet well intentioned interventionism or is it the result of a carefully planned collapse intended to increase the power and wealth of those at the top of the power structure?
In vulgar terms - is Greenspan a genious or a moron who despite a brilliant career in studying, predicting and controlling the market, couldn't see five years ahead of him?..
Please consider and/or respond to the following questions:
Does anyone benefit from the current and worsening economic state? If so who?
Do the people that benefit (if there are any) have the means to control the economy?
If there is a plan what is the goal? If there is no plan what are the possible outcomes?
Also, What is the Matrix? I would like to see this question applied to the Media as well.
I.E. Is the dumbed down, misinformed, corporate owned, anti-freedom bias in the Media a result of a carefully planned strategy by the ruling class?
or is the result of pandering to a dumbed down public and focusing only on ratings not content?
In other words is the Media "giving the people what they want" or is it "force-feeding propaganda and mind control to the complaisant peasants?"
Questions of this nature form the larger context of "truther" movement as I see it.
- AdamAdamR's blog
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when people insist that you "show them the information" when it is out there just a click away
It's some weird stance that people take where they place themselves a judge and jury and pretend that the impetus is on you to convince them
Of course everyone needs to convince themselves and this stance seems to me like some lazy power trip
treat it as an opportunity. If you are making a claim and asking other people to believe it, then I believe the onus is on you to back up that claim with compelling evidence, or to expect that those people will persist in not believing you. If, on the other hand, I come to you and say, "Adam, I have heard you know something about the media covering up the death toll in Iraq, can you fill me in?" I believe you are perfectly justified in saying, "well, go and research it and I'll be happy to answer your questions if you don't understand what you read," or even "get lost, do I look like a newspaper?" I think it all boils down to who has the desire for the person to be educated or convinced. It falls upon that person to do the research and present it (either to the other party or to himself).
For my own experience, people have come to me with the theory about 9/11 being an inside job and said "you must believe this." I feel perfectly justified in saying "prove it." If they do not wish to present the evidence, because it is out there, then they should not be surprised or put off if most people don't accept their claims. On the other hand, if I (as I have) take an interest in understanding how fractional reserve banking and inflation transfers wealth from one group to another, then I certainly have no right to grab an economist and insist that he educate me. I should go out and learn what I can and then ask the economist if he/she would mind discussing it with me. It would only be good manners on my part to have done all I can in educating myself before taking up the time of an expert to extend or broaden my understanding.
THat's the way I see it, but I'm just a guy drinking a Moosehead.
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
between someone making an effort to understand opposing viewpoints and then asking for clarification
and someone who just feels that anyone offering a different opinion needs to cater to them while they wait and judge
If I told you veal was great and your response was, I don't really know about that I prefer steak.
And if I insisted that no veal was actually great, you would probably respond, -- well ok I'll be sure to try some and get back to you
However If you turned around and said, go cook me some veal, bring it to my table, and I'll let you know, then you took a bite, spit it out, and said, Nah, steak is better,
You'd understand when I flipped out and grabbed the Moosehead and went gaga with it
(Sorry, Flashback, worked in a restaurant once, I'm feeling better now)
as far as the 9/11 being an inside job, you should really look into all the truther sources out there (as I'm sure you have) because it's just so easy to sit back and poke holes in someone else's theory (again not that you've done this -- but some have)
After all, the truthers have familiarized themselves with the official fiction, er story
By the way, did you read the interview with the bank/oil exec in "the fictitious economy" (I posted a link in the Exxon blog) He calls Hayek the favorite writer of "the fascist class". Sadly I've never read Hayek but now I really have to. I know he is your favorite -- geez, Tom, I hope he's not right because that means you just might be a............................. nice fella?
I did read the interview. A few things that jump out at me:
This guy's "oil insider" status seems to rest upon his job at a bank where he specialized in the oil industry and the cryptic "I worked at Continental Oil." I'd like to hear more about that before calling him an insider. What did he do there? Did he run any actual oil operations, or was he in their finance department? Was he actually an employee, or just a consultant because of political connections? He smacks of a political, think tank hack to me.
The fact that he was Dennis Kucinich's economic advisor tells me that he IS a socialist - as is Kucinich. Everyone seems to be holding Kucinich up as some kind of hero of the people just because he wants to impeach Bush. If Bush were a Democratic party candidate, Kucinich wouldn't be doing any of this, imo. Even if he did, the rest of his ideas are pure statist, socialist, crap. Hudson's close connection to him taints anything he says with red flags for socialist bias - which is abundant in his comments.
His characerization (although it is indirect) of Hayek as fascist is laughable. Please do read the book. Hayek makes a well reasoned, overwhelming argument that Naziism was the natural result of decades of socialism in Germany. Hayek was as anti-fascist as anyone could possibly be. Hudson parrots the common refrain of socialists in relating capitalism to fascism - a fallacy that Hayek destroys in his book.
Hudson also makes the ludicrous assertion that there was a uniform brand of government planning during the period between 1865 and the end of WWII. He ignores the huge shift of philosophy and policy that came in with Wilson in 1912. Roosevelts policies were merely a continuation of Hoover's, which were a continuation of Wilson's (yes, I know Hoover was a Republican - but the New Deal was largely based upon his failed policies).
Overall, Hudson's version of what is going on in the oil industry could have been written by Jane Fonda, in my opinion. Do yourself a favor - read Hayek's book. I'm not saying any of this means you're wrong about the oil industry or that I'm right. You will see very clearly, though, that Hudson is wrong and he's a died-in-the-wool socialist. "Everything was great before WWI, when we just taxed the affluent." Riiiiiggghhhtttt. How about we rob no one?
Tom Mullen
www.tommullen.net
www.myspace.com/skepticsongs
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson
but why try to belittle his credibility? He worked at "some bank"? Being the oil industry specialist for Chase Manhattan is far from being the product of a think tank.
I'm sure you could look into his employment with that oil co. he worked for. Why not do that before casting doubt on his credentials and making false claims and innuendos?
Anyhow, as for the rest of your statement I see your point. I know what you think of Kucinich's politics so I'm not surprised that you think he is presenting a "socialists" version of history.
Anyhoo, Hayek, has made the list of books I'd like to read..................
And it all got there by people saying the same thing you are. Bring it to 'us'.
And now, yet again, the same redundant act will take place, so that someone somewhere else can go fetch the information from here to serve up on some other site. And by the time anyone actually acts on any of the information at any point in this 'matrix', the original reasons of why the process was put in place to begin with will have changed from its original purpose.
The subject in which you seek has been written about since the early 50's, there are many books that you can find which are so well 'laid out' that cross referencing the sources will literally take years.
But then again, your at a 'fast food restaurant', so I understand your angst. :)
Alex Jones fan
I'm not really sure what you mean though -- I think I'm missing your point..........
What the preface of the question has to do with the question. And so what. Why does that continue to matter to anyone. HE IS JUST A MESSENGER ADAM. And quite frankly the only one worth getting information from. NO WAIT, im sick of having to defend messengers, when the information SHOULD BE GETTING THE ATTENTION. Im so sick and tired of having to address Alex, and prove why being a 'fan' of him(whatever the hell that means) should not automatically disqualify the message that is being presented. Maybe thats why a certain entity thinks their cutting edge in this endeavor, they havent been tuning in for the last 14 years. (chuckle)
Or what the point of you understanding what my point is.
Convenience will not save this country Adam.
And in a world where left is right and right is left, Im not sure it matters anyway.
But I would put myself in the brace position, because we will eat fire soon, and no jolly fake smiles and pretending is going to make it go away any longer. The real have turned to plastic, and the plastic is turning real.
Dont tell me your going to start power tripping as well, on the golden pawn box star you got in class?
The line continues to be drawn in the sand, but this time its different than the playground at school.
you need to relax, maybe then you will start making sense
I'm also an Alex Jones Fan, it's just a short way of saying that you have certain views of the nwo and probably beleive 9/11 was an inside job, etc.
Anyhow, I wasn't talking about Alex Jones, I was sincerely trying to make sense of your previous comments which seem incoherent despite my best attempts, and my pre-existing knowledge of some or your beliefs
Would be nice, to relax, and some Oreo cookies with milk.
Oh, I know where you stand on issues. I come from a family of 7 siblings, and that doesnt mean that me and my brothers didnt have fistfights every couple of weeks. My sisters some times left me a black eye you know..
I just meant that that perpetual cycle of getting information for people is becoming redundant when the information is at their fingertips.
In reality, what is being said, is that in order for a person; who is demanding information be given to them, to cognitively consider any evidence of 'anything' today, it must be first brought to them in order for it even to exist as 'possible'.
Its much like a post grad thats working on a thesis going to other people, asking for information, when in fact its that persons thesis, and responsibility to educate themselfs.
Im sure this is just another product of the welfare state.
It also had nothing to do with the forum, just a after thought of the last 10 years of doing this day in day out, and what has really been achieved.
Much has, but the redundancy is what has hampered spreading of information.
I mean, how hard is it to google "why the sky is blue" or "US created and sponsored al-CIAta" or any other information that permeates and drips from all the internet.
And the thanks we get, for doing this service.
Nutters. Hackers. Crazy. Etc.
Slander, lies, and nothing but stupid rhetoric that makes new speak look like childs play.
Well, in the end, all the subjects that no one wants to know about today will be common knowledge, and all the riders of tailcoats will slap themselves on the back, saying how they saved the day.
This war is like any other war. There are those that stay behind and enjoy freedom, while others go out and secure it. And to secure freedom always takes getting the hand dirty.
Really man, Im just tired. I work fulltime, and then spend the rest of my time engaged in this infowar, and have been doing so for 10 years.
Ive lost friends, and family over what is now taken as self evident subjects like the CFR, and the FED. Not to mention other more 'dangerous' subjects.
When Bush was loved and adored, we where there telling everyone of what type of person he really was; which by the way would probably include most people here, so its again back to telling people bush is evil when everyone loves him, but now its just a different topic.
Im really tired of this attitude, and I will admit that it has caused my to be a little bitter towards the American public at large. And for good reason.
I feel like a veteran( I am a vet by the way) of the infowar that is now being spit on, and ridiculed when they come back home(i know about that as well), and is seeking medical coverage but everyone turns their back. Quite frankly I feel betrayed.
I feel that people dont deserve my efforts any longer, on any subject.
It really doesnt matter you see, for like Ron Paul said, "something big is coming", and I know what it is.
And just like most Humans, they only believe what they see, and I see it coming around the mountain when it comes.
I decided to withdraw my comment, I was probably over stepping my boundaries.
say it say it say it say it
lol, well I cant remember exactly what I had wanted to say but you mentioned your family as part of your response. I have no right to speculate on your family relationships and that is why I had withdrawn my comment. Also I wanted to mention Alex Jones and my views on his beliefs and his websites infowars.com and the others. First of all I am a veteran as well and I have first hand knowledge / experience with the topics shown on his websites, videos and talked about on his show related to military and law enforcement. I have witnessed stories blown out of proportion regarding these topics and have come to the conclusion that although technically he may be correct about many of these happenings they are exaggerated out of proportion. Therefore I have decided to take everything with a 'grain of salt' reported by him. I believe that his news reporting is therefore somewhat biased and more to the tune of alarmism (is that a word?) because of his exaggerations. I am not anti Alex Jones by any means, in fact he is one of the reasons that I've become involved and aware of my surroundings instead of being a zombified media mind controlled tool and I'm still a subscriber because I believe he has the power and means to wake countless more people from their slumber.
-Kenny
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
"I have no right to speculate on your family relationships and that is why I had withdrawn my comment.'
Ok, well that comment was in reference to the way I snapped at Adam. I grew up in a big family, and I know now adays that might seem WEIRD to you, but back in the day having fights with your siblings was normal, but we still loved each other at the end of the day.. You digg?
You must have been an only child. :)
I really dont care whether anyone likes Alex or believes him or not.
I have studied alot of documents myself, and have seen it, and I am alarmed!
What exact topic though are you referring to here?
I can try to be monotone if it will help.
You don't have to justify your actions with me. I do digg. I'm not an only child. Liking or disliking Alex Jones has nothing to do with what I said. Believing or disbelieving Alex Jones is an extremely general statement in which I never argued one way or another, I have only stated that he exaggerates on matters I have first hand experience with. I would rather you be full stereo surround sound with lots of bass. I despise censorship and control of ideas or expression. I am not going to waste my time searching for stories to post here for you, you obviously ain't listening to me clearly, you chugged the whole pitcher of AJ Fruit freak your mind punch and wont tolerate criticism of AJ maybe because of all the time you've spent defending him? For the record I do like AJ, I like that he is bold, I like that he is loud and I like that he will never back down. In my opinion we need more people like that. That doesn't mean I will follow him like a subservient zealot and I'm sure he wouldn't want me to.
-Kenny
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
"am not going to waste my time searching for stories to post here for you, you obviously ain't listening to me clearly,"
Well since you are so busy then, why are you waisting time talking with me?
I never asked you for any information.
I think though that the fact you concentrate on such trivial matters in times like these is interesting.
You butted in on OUR conversation anyway. I suppose next time I should message him in private.
On the other hand, I should probably use a public key and a proxy for all the EARs in the walls.
So whats your point again?
Oh, yes, you first told me that you withdrew your comment, which really means you wanted me to know you withdrew you comment, so that you could eventually lead up to the present.
(while i dont agree with it)Those tax payer dollars all those years on me wasnt for nothing.
"The willow knows what the storm does not, that the power to endure harm, outlives the power to inflict it."
We are all in the same boat, I'd prefer not to carry on with petty arguments.
-Kenny
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
comrades soon must turn" Townes Van Zandt
"Can't we all just get along" Rodney King
Easy, now let's save the anger for those most deserving of it .............
30 percent.
Kenny,
Blown out of proportion is relative to your current beliefs. If just some of the things our government is doing today was happing say a hundred years ago, the people of this country would be outraged.
Some examples,
- Police stopping American citizen on the street for no reason at all and searching them.
- Enacting gun laws to disarm American citizens when statistics clearly show an armed reduces crime.
- The president and some cities (Washington D.C.) thumbing their noses at the Supreme Court.
- Taxation that is out of control.
And finally my favorite point. I was in a town hall meeting the other day and I was listening to people from various local and state government agencies babble on about how they are going to address our issues. When the supervisor from the city code enforcement made a comment about being able to issue fines to residents that violate city codes. She stated and I quote
“We are trying to make sure all codes are enforced, however we cannot look over fences or enter someone’s property to find code violations. They have a constitutional right to privacy. However we are currently trying to find a way around this.”
This should have scared the hell out of everyone there, but it was as if she had never said it. I guess this goes back to REA’s point, it is truly disheartening “ You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes it just get wet.”
Americans today are pathetic. They will just sit by, watch this happen, and chalk it up to BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION.
These are violations of our constitutional and natural rights (read the Federalist). There is no grey area here. It is either a violation or not, it’s that simple. So how is it you see such things as being “blown out of proportion”?
If you read our Constitution and the Federalist papers you will see that it is VERY clear that it limits the power of the federal government not the people.
Alexander Hamilton wrote in the Federalist 84
“I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? I will not contend that such a provision would confer a regulating power; but it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretense for claiming that power.”
Well that was a thorough response and perhaps I didn't make my self clear on the fact that what I consider to be blown out of proportion is in fact exaggerated or blown out of proportion and what I am referring to and only referring to here is what I have first hand knowledge and experience with regarding military / law enforcement. That is not to say that all articles, stories, speeches on this given subject are exaggerated but only that some are in fact exaggerated and that is the basis for my argument. I can cite specific examples but I would prefer not to spend time doing so because I doubt it would make any difference as it would be mere controversial speculation to those without similar experience.
-Kenny
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Fire away... I mean, you already have :)
See these links:
The Legal Matrix
http://www.breakthematrix.com/content/One-Must-Understand-Who-the-Matrix...
The Money, media, social, political matrix:
http://www.breakthematrix.com/node/8764
This article was spammed to death by a (now) banned member pushing his Amerikka Agenda.
More info on the media matrix here:
http://www.breakthematrix.com/Business/What-Is-BreakTheMatrix
and it seems a good description of the various methods of control that are currently utilized
I still wonder if it is all about greed and power or if there is a larger goal in mind ..... speculative thoughts no doubt
I guess time will tell
I think the Ron Paul convention -- with big name musical acts, Jesse Ventura, hopefully some real media coverage -- is going to attract a lot more people to the freedom movement
I haven't seen a large influx of people to this site yet, so I still consider it a place where its alright to try out these ideas without scaring too many people away
then again it is speculation so I agree that there's not much to be gained from it beyond sounding off a bit
Anyhow, I'm fine saying the whole thing is about greed and lust for power and waiting patiently while the economy sours to attract more and more people
However, one does have to wonder, is the greed and power a goal in and of itself or is it a tool to be used to accomplish some objective
Maybe that objective is just old men wanting to live like rockstars............
(Satire) It was once said that imitation is flattery? :) Oh my god!!!(Gasp) He is that 9/11 nutter Adam...
And you 'know' what that means....
And, even that crazy Alex Jones might be there(GASP), and probably transmitting live to millions of people.(Double Gasp) The shame. That FISA bill better hurry, and Im sure the Treasoners will work some jiffy loophole that will also apply to commercial radio licenses, for all that chatter on the radio is 'aggravating' and 'indecent', and violates my Constitutional Rights "not to be aggravated" while listening to my good ole "Easy listening Radio Station".......
And since Ron Paul has the indecency himself to taint his image by associating with, and rubbing shoulders with, and being friends with, such aggravating subject makers, I think I will vote for the local Jack Ass, for he is always loyal, willing, and able to haul off all the piles of S*** that I keep laying with my mouth as I go around the land enjoying the freedom I dont really believe in.
Well, Id rather sit and watch some people on a couch talk and talk about the pledge of allegiance, than going and working in the garden.
most of those old men already have the money to live that way if they want, I think it has more to do with men wanting to live like Xerxes or Alexander the Great.
Government has solved the age old dilemma of the alchemists. In order to turn lead into gold, just add blood.
my views are pretty close to yours revman
I acknowledge a lot of unknowns, I think the Media is basically an element of social control -- it tells insecure people how to dress, what to think, what music to listen to, what cars to drive, etc. It prevents people from reaching any hard earned understanding of reality because it presents a pre-made, easily digestible version that requires little effort to comprehend.
I don't like to go as far as speculation on the plans, goals, etc. but I am certainly aware of the alex jones view of events
If there is a concentrated power orchestrating events it is not solely for money since any entity at that level would have an unlimited supply --- more about control I would think
The environmental theme -- that people are a burden to the planet, that resources are running low, peak oil, is gaining momentum ---- and with it the notion that we'd be better off with a serious reduction in planetary population ---- could this be the goal of those who wish to gain total control?
could be, but I don't know,
I know I'm being lied to but I can't tell you exactly what the truth is, so for now the truth is that I'm being lied to
This kinda speculation may be fun, and thought provoking but its not particularly useful at this point. i think most of us have decided to give the system the benefit of the doubt, and work to change things in America, through the political process.
personally I am confident that the longer we entertain the system, the more evidence we will have to prove a conspiracy. the more evidence we have, the more people will come into the fold, the more people the more political influence, and so on.
But when we have 20 million people shouting fk the fed, and the media still wont cover us, and our officials are still getting shut out, then we'll have a case for conspiracy, hell at that point we will have a case for an old world style revolution.
Government has solved the age old dilemma of the alchemists. In order to turn lead into gold, just add blood.
Is it just me, or are there more and more oxy morons about?